© copyright 2004 by Pro Litteris, Zurich and Remo F. Roth, Horgen-Zurich

UFO Abduction Seen from Wolfgang Pauli’s and Carl G. Jung’s Psychophysical Reality Hypothesis

Dr. Remo F. Roth, 8810 Horgen (Zurich), Switzerland

Interviewed by Dennis Kirstein

Dear Dr. Roth

How long have you been occupied with the phenomenon of UFO abduction, and what experience was decisive for your interest in it?

I have neither seen a UFO in the outer world nor was I ever abducted. However, at the beginning of 1979, I began to be plagued by UFO dreams. This is why I began to study this phenomenon. As a psychosomatically oriented psychotherapist I then realized that there are quite a lot of people who dream about UFOs and the related abduction phenomena, although the context of such dreams is not necessarily as technical as described in the UFO literature.

Therefore you think that UFO abduction researchers are selecting the best cases in their books, and that there are really many more types of experiences, perhaps even with different scenarios and entities?

A great part of the UFO encounter and abduction research remains within a world view that is – after the discoveries of quantum physics and of the depth psychologist Carl G. Jung during the 20th century – not current anymore today. As long as these researchers cannot realize that they try to explain these phenomena backed by an old-fashioned world view, they will continue to look for concretely existing spaceships in a physically describable spacetime, and like this try to find animal- or human-like extraterrestrials. Because these “spaceships” and “aliens” do not exist in physical spacetime but in an intermediate world for whom our physical categories of space, time, energy, mass and gravitation do not exist, they will never succeed in finding them.

In the UFO encounter and abduction research we have therefore to include one of the most important common insights of the physicist and Nobel laureate Wolfgang Pauli and the depth psychologist Carl G. Jung: The hypothesis of exactly the above mentioned intermediate world the former called the unified psychophysical reality, the latter the unus mundus (the unified world). It describes a potential world before the creation and exists behind or even beyond the Cartesian split into an inner and an outer world, into psyche and matter. As the abolition of this Cartesian split leads into a spatial experience of an “everywhere” and in a feeling of an eternal time, the diving into this world is accompanied by the sensation of the penetration of the Beyond into our space- and time-bound world.

According to my research results so far, this hypothetical intermediate world, postulated by two of the greatest scientific geniuses of the 20th century, becomes observable through exactly these UFO encounter and abduction phenomena. With the help of this new hypothesis – however already known to specific alchemists of the Renaissance as Paracelsus, Gerardus Dorneus and Robert Fludd – abductions become explainable in a very natural manner: With the help of a spontaneous, acausal act and against their will, the abduction victims are thrown into this unified psychophysical world (unus mundus), into this Beyond of the everyday’s experience. This Beyond they experience in a state of an altered ego I call Eros consciousness (see below). Further, because of epistemological reasons we will deal with below, this experience of the Beyond is also connected to the vision of real acausal creation and incarnation acts (see below) out of this potential unus mundus.

Out of this potential intermediate world on principle anything can incarnate into our space- and time-bound world, be it usual, or be it alien that we cannot understand with our today’s scientific tools. As these beings are incarnated from a completely alien world – i.e., out of the psychophysical reality we can only observe with the help of an altered state of consciousness – they will mostly be very strange. Their appearance will however – as already the late Johannes Fiebag guessed with the help of his Mimikry hypothesis – depend a lot on the specific conscious state of the victim. Therefore we can be sure that there exist not only the often quoted Greys, but a great diversity of such creatures.

Did you, in the course of time, have a personal relationship to humans who believed in being abducted by extraterrestrials? Based on your professional knowledge, would you consider such persons to be sick, as some more sceptical humans are assuming?

Abductions by so-called extraterrestrials are border experiences on a knife edge. As such events mean an experience of the Beyond already during our earthly life, they contain the great danger of a so-called inflation, a megalomania. This is the attendant symptom of a specific mental disease, of a psychosis. In it the sick person cannot distinguish anymore between its ego and the archetypal figures (“gods”) that appear during these experiences. Therefore the individual identifies with them and becomes himself an inflated pseudo-god. In the UFO phenomenon there are a lot of such examples. I am emphasizing therefore that I draw a line with such “godlike people”.

In my alternative psychosomatic practice some people, who have also had UFO dreams or abduction experiences, have looked for my help. They differ however completely from the above psychotics insofar as they do not abuse their experiences by playing the new guru. Because they are humble humans, they are able to distinguish their ego from these extremely dangerous and overwhelming archetypal forces and processes, and do not therefore succumb to them. Thus, I am convinced that these people, who have mastered this sometimes Herculean task, are not psychotic but are confronted with the creative challenge of growing into a new world view which corresponds more or less to the one I am trying to sketch in this short interview.

These individuals are mostly talking about such weird experiences only in the consulting room of a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist. However, because of the limited world view of the therapist, they are pushed into a pathological corner and do, therefore, not feel understood. After some negative experiences they don’t talk about their alien experiences anymore and become silent. In this marginalized situation however, they are suffering very much. Thus they are very thankful when they find at least an understanding therapist who follows the description of their account without too many prejudices.

What theory of the causes for this strange phenomenon you have found after your years of experience?

The UFO phenomenon, especially the abduction, is the observable expression of a new real creation and incarnation that is constellated today which is, however, not accepted by modern science because it cannot explain it with its theoretical foundations and experimental tools.

Carl G. Jung was convinced that in the very near future – he thought about 50 years after his death, i.e., in the year 2011 – these phenomena will become extremely threatening. I agree with him and do not hesitate to talk of a possible apocalyptic catastrophe. As these phenomena happen in the above mentioned unified psychophysical reality, there exists a great likelihood of their appearance not “only” in UFO sightings and abduction, but also in different events, e.g., in spooky or other parapsychological phenomena. In my opinion, also the original HIV virus could be such a spontaneous, acausal creation out of the unus mundus (which is however destructive, because we are completely unconscious about the possibility of such creation acts).

The boundless technological and social progress seems therefore to be the cause for the appearance of such phenomena?

According to my insights it is, above all, the invention of the atomic bomb and of the nuclear power plants, which develops such a destructive effect.

This is my hypothesis: On the background of depth psychological insights that root in almost 2,000 year old alchemical statements, one can show that the energy term must be bipolar – as e.g. also in the Chinese Taoism. From the point of view of psychophysical reality one can therefore state that during the radioactive decay yang energy is transformed into yin energy. The Medieval Hermetic alchemy, whose deepest truths are however disregarded by science since the 17th century, shows us further that this process must always be accompanied by a parallel one: Yin transforms again into yang energy. The latter transformation corresponds to the UFO phenomenon.

Physics, and with it the whole of natural science, believes however only in yang energy. Therefore it cannot accept that in the radioactive (Beta-)decay yang energy disappears and transforms into yin energy. For the explanation of the empirically observable disappearance of physical energy during this process, in the year 1930 Wolfgang Pauli invented a new particle (mass = energy) which should carry the missing energy. Today, we call this particle the antineutrino. Since its invention it fools however the physicists, and drives them sometimes almost to despair. Namely, it almost never reacts with normal matter and is therefore only indirectly inferable – as, after Pauli’s own words, psychophysical reality, too!

Therefore I postulate that this so-called antineutrino, regarded on the deeper level of the unus mundus, represents yin energy. Thus, we can conclude that in the atomic bomb and in the nuclear power plants a lot of yin energy is created.

Further I state that this yin energy belongs to psychophysical reality thought of as a mere potentiality. Out of this potentiality events and processes are incarnated in our space- and time-bound world. Because they come out of this world beyond physics, their behavior is completely “nonphysical”, i.e., they are not explainable with our modern scientific theories. These creations and incarnations are therefore a necessary expression of the above mentioned parallel process {yin -> yang}. Thus, the transformation from yang to yin, the atomic bomb and the nuclear power plant, must belong together with the UFO phenomenon – the modern artificial Siamese twins.

The psychophysical, i.e., the yin reality is physically unobservable. Therefore it seems as if in the second of the above parallel processes something containing a quasi-physical (observable in the outside) or quasi-psychic (observable in the inside) energy is created out of the “nothing”, i.e., out of the “void”. This means however that the deeper problem consists in the fact that we cannot determine with the help of the experimental tools of physics, where these phenomena take the necessary energy for their creation from. Therefore, natural scientists declare them as non existent.

In the relevant literature it is mostly the famous cases of the abduction of the Hills or of Travis Walton that is reported. Which case would you personally hold is the most tricky one that however, would also stand up to a profound examination?

I was interested in these cases years ago when I was studying the UFO literature. Today I am more interested in “contemporary cases”, i.e., in dreams, visions, and the inner journeys of my patients. With them I observe the fact that they experience these inner phenomena much more bodily (“This was in some way much more than a dream…”), precisely because they root their experiences not only in the psychic but also in the psychophysical layer of the so-called collective unconscious. In it, the usual perception of space and time vanishes, and gravitation is compensated by some sort of an anti-gravitational force. This is why such inner “more-than-a-dream” experiences can be compared with UFO abduction.

Especially in the U.S. there are however researchers who came to the conclusion that we dealing with a real phenomenon, i.e., with actual abductions by extraterrestrials. You surely know John E. Mack’s and Budd Hopkins’ books that became worldwide bestsellers. What do you think about these people and their theories?

In my opinion the UFO abduction phenomenon is very real. It is however only perceptible in an altered state of the ego I call Eros consciousness. The latter is complementary to the usual consciousness, and we can observe that in the moment of the abduction the victims are forced into exactly this sort of an altered consciousness.

In it, space and time correspond to completely different criteria than the ones of our usual ego (the experience of space and time is dependent of our state of the consciousness). Because the abductees enter unconsciously what I call the altered Eros consciousness, we are not able to make use of the paradigm of natural science anymore, the latter based on what I call Logos consciousness, on these abduction phenomena.

I am therefore convinced that the hypothesis of extraterrestrials is not necessary. What UFO researchers call extraterrestrials or aliens, are energetic fields rooted in the more or less space-, time- and gravitationless psychophysical reality, which are – during a spontaneous incarnation act (see below) - condensed to “living matter”. Therefore talking of extraterrestrials does not make any sense anymore. 

I am convinced that John E. Mack gives, with the help of a scientific meticulousness and honesty, an overview of the “cases” treated by him. Therefore, I appreciate his fundamental empirical research very much. I do, however, not know how much he was able to include the new paradigm of psychophysical reality that the physicist Wolfgang Pauli and the depth psychologist Carl G. Jung proposed at the beginning of the 2^nd half of the 20^th century.  

Budd Hopkins is an artist, therefore he is much more at home in the right half of the brain. Like this he is very close to the altered state of the ego I call Eros consciousness. Further, his empirical observation that “extraterrestrials” are most interested in every part of the human body except one, the heart, I consider to be very interesting. Obviously, it is the task of us humans to contribute this standpoint of the heart!

Since the discoveries of Michael Gershon more or less 20 years ago we know that we have also a brain in the belly, which functions independently of the brain. According to my experience, the UFO abduction phenomenon has a lot to do with an unconscious relationship with this “gut brain”, the instrument of recognition of Eros consciousness. It even seems that UFO entities have the intension of compelling us to a conscious relationship with this gut brain.

I do not use any artificial intervention for curing abduction victims, therefore neither regressive hypnosis, because, in my opinion, in this way the related experiences can be distorted. I restrict myself to natural methods like the observation of related dreams and on my method of so-called Body-Centered Imagination, developed during the last 20 years.

To make it short: UFO abduction as described in books does not happen in a physical way?

I would say that it does not happen exclusively physically, i.e., in an outer world completely independent of the inner experience (the hypothesis of so-called dead matter). The victims are abducted into a world that is neither exclusively physical nor psychic, but consists of an “inside/outside”, i.e., the unified psychophysical reality or unus mundus, we do not experience anymore today, which was however still a living experience for the today-ridiculed alchemy of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance.

It is typical enough that it was one of the co-founders of quantum physics, the above mentioned Nobel laureate Wolfgang Pauli, who made the demand that we must return to this world of the old alchemists, however on a higher scientific level, i.e., by the inclusion of the discoveries of quantum physics and depth psychology, for the purpose of establishing a new science. This scientific approach of the 21st century should therefore contain physics and depth psychology, as well as parapsychology. Like this it will become some sort of a metatheory containing these three sciences as a special case and explaining the natural phenomena on an extended basis. In contradiction to most psychologists and psychiatrists, I view, therefore, this psychophysical reality the victims are abducted into, as a real phenomenon. This phenomenon can, however, only be perceived in an altered state of consciousness, in which the abductees are unconsciously thrown into the moment the abduction begins.

In future research one should, therefore, examine the relationship between UFO abduction and altered states of consciousness even more. I am sure that a close affinity between them and OBE and the near death experience, will be found.

Such a development would alert us to the fact that the principle behind the UFO phenomena is to abduct us into a world in which we find back to a relationship with the “people of the Beyond” – like the archaic cultures and their shamans had.

It is a matter of fact that I observed indeed the need, constellated in the unconscious of the abductees, of becoming some sort of a modern shaman, a healer that heals with the help of “magical” means we cannot explain by natural science.

As proof for the reality of the abductions by extraterrestrials believers show sometimes certain implants. What would you tell us about them?

The implants are not stable. This shows that they exist also in an intermediate world. As much as I know, they are therefore only quasi-physical and mostly vanish. I am guessing that this intermediate world of the implants coincides as well with the psychophysical reality behind or even beyond the Cartesian split into an outer and an inner world, into physics/soma and psyche.

In connection with the UFO abduction you have surely observed some interesting general aspects of the UFO phenomenon. What is your opinion about it?

I do not agree with a lot of my colleagues that the UFO encounter and abduction phenomenon consists of a projection of subjective problems into the heaven, in psychotic delusions (except in the case of the above mentioned “gurus”), “nothing but” phenomena, or censured “symbols” that veil the actual trauma, and so on.

On the contrary, I am, as mentioned above, convinced that the UFO phenomenon is very real, but cannot however been experienced with the help of the observational tools of science. This is especially true for the observation act with the help of the scientific experiment. The results of it are thought of as independent of the specific space and time it is started by will (because of the so-called isotropy of space and time).

In contrast with this assumption, we cannot observe UFO phenomena with the help of this scientific attitude, because they are unique, acausal, indeterministic and therefore spontaneous acts. They are further only observable by certain specific humans, in the experience of whom they appear suddenly and unpredictable, and often with very serious psychic and/or physical “side effects”.

My theory has developed during the last 30 years and gives evidence for the fact that we live in a time, in which a entirely new world will incarnate. Such a creation and incarnation will happen after the nexus of the so-called creatio continua, i.e., the possibility of spontaneous and genuine new creation which is possible at any time. The Christian church calls such events miracles; in the pagan cultures it was the magic event provoked by the gods.

The creatio continua is a compensatory principle to the unique creatio ex nihilo, God’s big bang, so to speak. This acausal principle of the creatio continua is constellated to a very high degree today, because we provoke it with the help of artificial radioactive decay. We have therefore to expect a time in the near future in which these anomalous events will greatly increase.

Whether this new creation will be constructive or destructive will, in my opinion, very much depend on the insight that certain humans chosen by fate are accepted by society to observe the incarnation phenomena concerned in an altered state of consciousness. Quantum physics has shown us that only by the conscious observation of a state we call the potential being (Aristotle) – the above mentioned psychophysical reality or unus mundus – an incarnation of potential events and processes into our space- and time-bound world is possible. The conscious observation of such phenomena by some specific humans will therefore become extraordinarily important. Of course, people with UFO abduction experience (who have, however, been able to renounce the guru career), will especially be suited for such an observational activity.

In short: The UFO phenomenon demonstrates a threatening apocalyptic danger, which can however be transformed into a constructive process by a transformation of our conscious attitude. Such a transformation contains the abandonment of our onesided natural scientific principles and the growth into a new world view on the foundation of psychophysical reality. Further, it requires the acceptance of the idea that specific humans are allowed to follow their introverted imaginations. Only when we can first accept that a creation myth is constellated at the beginning of the 21st century that follows the principle of the creatio continua, and second that we have to help it incarnate by an observation with an unprejudiced and unbiased conscious attitude, mankind will have a chance for survival of threatening apocalyptic events.

There exists the famous proverb that between heaven and earth there is sufficient space for unexplainable phenomena. Do you give them (UFO, ghosts, psi) a chance, or do you believe that they will be explainable, too, in the future?

My theory explains UFO encounter and abduction that are not understandable with the theoretical and experimental tools of natural science, but are comprehensible on an archetypal and psychophysical background. It cannot and does not want to explain the when and the where of such anomalous events with the help of causal or statistically causal laws. Such a theory would be impossible, because UFO phenomena consist in unique acausal events. Such singular events are in fact describable with the help of quantum physical epistemological terminology; it is however impossible to find a mathematical quantum physical law for their prediction.

I will demonstrate this fact crucial for the understanding of my theory, with the example of the natural radioactive decay: If we observe a radioactive substance that contains relatively few atoms – let us say 20 – neither any human nor any mathematical law can predict which atom will decay in which time, i.e., space and time of the future event are completely unpredictable. In exactly this way we must imagine the situation of a creation act according to the nexus of the creatio continua. In the case of the radioactive decay we can only predict that it is absolutely sure that one of the 20 atoms will decay in the future. The same is true for the UFO phenomenon: We are sure that further encounter and abduction will happen, but we cannot, in principle, predict where and when such a creation and incarnation event will happen.

It is exactly this new way of thinking that accepts the singular acausal act of creation – the magical miracle – as having equal rights as the causal mathematical law, which actually should be obvious more than 100 years after the discovery of the natural radioactive decay by Henry Becquerel (1895). But exactly this logically necessary inclusion of the singular acausal creation act in a basic theory of nature, i.e., the possibility of a spontaneous creation and incarnation, is not yet accepted in scientific circles. Therefore, science goes on arguing with the help of causal (Newtonian) and statistical causal (quantum physical) laws, and cannot understand that acausal, indeterministic, “accidental” incarnation events must exist. The fact is not yet accepted that we cannot reduce such events to the nexus of cause and effect (“This event is caused by this one…”), but must accept that they happen without any cause and are therefore genuine creation acts in nature.

Also in psychology and especially in psychotherapy 99,9 % of the physicians and therapists still argue in a causal manner, though exactly in this field of experience one can observe a lot of meaningful “accidental” events, i.e., so-called synchronicities, which prove empirically that essential aspects of life do not follow a causal but a final nexus, i.e., do not possess a cause but are incarnated for the purpose of fulfilling a predetermined goal.

Are there any books, Websites or other publications you can recommend to our readers?

As much as I know up until today, my UFO research is yet the only one, which roots in the hypothesis of the unified psychophysical reality (W. Pauli) or unus mundus (Carl G. Jung) and strives in this way to overcome the Cartesian split into matter and psyche. The only book I know up until today that deals with this matter in a similar but more artistic way, is Veronica Goodchild’s Eros and Chaos (Nicolas-Hays, Inc., York Beach, Maine, U.S., 2001). Goodchild herself experienced a UFO encounter, and interprets it with the help of Carl Jung’s and Marie-Louise von Franz’ depth psychological research results. Further, I can refer to my WebSite (www.psychovision.ch/rfr/roth_e_ufos.htm), in which I illustrate my theory with the help of some examples.

Last but not least, we find a lot of profound thoughts about the sought-after psychophysical reality in Wolfgang Pauli’s and Carl G. Jung’s letters. In them they discuss also some of Pauli’s dreams, which contain many hints to such a psychophysical theory, however encrypted in the typically symbolical language of these contents of the collective unconscious.

Vita

Dr. Remo F. Roth is working in his practice in Zurich. He is dealing with alternative psychosomatics, especially with the Body-Centered Imagination (BCI), developed by him, and with future oriented dream interpretation.

For 25 years he has observed the UFO phenomenon. Because of his professional occupation he has also cured humans that are the victims of UFO abduction – whether in dreams, visions and other inner phenomena, or it in outer reality.

Up until the formulation of a consistent theory with the help of quantum physical and depth psychological insights on the basis of the psychophysical reality, he preferred to stay in the background with his research. Therefore he is not yet too wellknown amongst UFO interested people.

Dr. Roth is publishing his theories and empirical results especially on the Internet (see www.psychovision.ch/rfr/roth_e.htm). Further publications will follow in the near future.

Proofread 21.4.2004 VG and GJS